Hard Questions

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Allah is The God of The Quran and The Bible…. part 2: The logic behind the statement.

with 7 comments


This post is based entirely on a comment submitted by Mamoun Elkheir, I think It is a fantastic read and is just too valuable to be left in the inner comments sections of this blog. I decided to publish it as a separate post:

Mamoun was replying to Andrew in a heated debate which you can read here.

Mamoun said:

I have followed your objections to Rasheed’s post over the past few days, and your claim that that the argument is not put in a “logical format”.

Despite my conviction, and I believe it would also by the conviction of anyone who has elementary understanding of the science of logic- that the argument in the post is logically sound, and includes all the necessary elements of “logical proof”, nevertheless, I will explain the arguments in details:

Logical Elements of The Post:

1- The post does indeed expresses a “Logical Statement” as its central issue. The accepted definition of a “Logical Statement” is : “Any statement that can either be TRUE or FALSE“.

In this case, the Logical Statement in question, as has been explained by Rasheed in his comment, is the title of the Post, namely: Allah is The God of The Quran and The Bible“, and within the post itself, the “Central Argument” has been further expanded, since:

Rasheed claimed that:

[“The god that Muslims AND ‘Arab Christian and Jews to this day’ AND ‘ Christian and Jews who lived at the time of Jesus Christ and spoke Aramaic,’
believed to be
(“The god of Abraham and Isaac“, ANDThe Only True god“),
That the name of this god
-who is accurately determined by the preceding statement –
is ALLAH.].

This is central argument of the post, was clearly stated in the title of the post, and detailed within it,

Now this statement can be Accepted by one person and Rejected by another, It is, no doubt, a “Logical Statement” according to the scientific definition of a “Logical Statement”,

You, therefore, have no right to demand that a person changes the composition of a “logical statement” put forward by him, You can either: a) Accept it according to the evidence and deduction offered by him, b) Reject it according to evidence that YOU produce, c) Ignore it, as Rasheed has offered you

Yet, most striking, is your request that the Statement be re-written in the “Conditional Format” suggested by yourself (IF A AND B THEN C), since this format, unfortunately, is simply another “LOGICAL COMPOSITION” that needs to be PROVEN or REJECTED, in EXACTLY the same way the “Logical Statement” put forward in the post and its title by Rasheed.

This format you requested which is called a “CONDITIONAL SATAEMET” is just one amongst MANY other “LOGICAL COMOSITIONS” such as (Conjunction Statement: A AND B) , (Disjunction Statement: A OR B), (Implication Statement: A IMPLIES B), (Negation Statement: NOT A).
ALL these “Logical Compositions” do not, by themselves, imply the TRUTH or FALSEHOOD of any statement, they are simply Statements that can either be TRUE or FALSE, in EXACTLY the same way the statement put by Rasheed in the title of his post and then proceeded to PROVE it within the post. This PROOF, will be the subject of the remainder of my comment, and I will explain it in some details here.

Due the the apparent confusion in your understanding of logical concepts and terminology, I do advise that you consult some basic references on the subject:

2: NEXT, and this is the most important part of the discussion, we look at the logical evidence that can be used to Prove or Reject the “Logical Statement” put by Rasheed.

There are a number of methods that can be used to logically Prove or Disprove a statement, and these include “Deduction“, “Induction“, “Proof by Contradiction” amongst others, and Rasheed has conclusively proved his statement using “TOTAL INDUCTION“, where :

a) He has shown, based on “The Accepted sources and references” for each of the Groups that they call the god they believe to be
(the god of Abraham and Isaac) AND (The only true god),
ALLAH
This part of the statement is called Postulate, since it is not challenged !

You can go back to the post and the linked page to see the references used.

b) It follows that

The name of the god that is accurately determined by being:
{[(The god of Abraham and Isaac) AND (The only true god)] ACCORDING to the beliefs OF
(Muslims) AND (Arab Christians and Jews to this day) AND (Early Christian and Jews at the time of Jesus)
is ALLAH, and this is the required proof.

Put in mathematical format:

Statement VALUE EVIDENCE
P= Muslims believe the name of the god of Abraham and Isaac who is the only true god is ALLAH TRUE POSTULATE
Q= Early Christians and Jews at the time of Jesus believed that the name of the god of Abraham and Isaac who is the only true god is ALLAH TRUE POSTULATE
R= Arab Christians and Jews to this day believe that the name of the god of Abraham and Isaac who is the only true god is ALLAH TRUE POSTULATE
W= P AND Q AND R The name of (the god who is accurately determined by being [the god of Abraham and Isaac AND who is the the only true god] ACCORDING to the belief of Muslims AND Early Christians and Jews at the time of Jesus AND Arab Christians and Jews to this day) is ALLAH TRUE CONJUNCTION

You can see that the statement is a Conjunction of Postulates, and therefore, can NOT be expressed in Conditional Format, Postulates are unchallenged Truths, and are not dependent on other statements for their truth i.e they ARE NOT CONDITIONAL on other statements.

To further help you in your task, The only way to disprove Rasheed’s Logical Statement would be to disprove ANY of the constituent postulates.

I hope this clarifies the logical issues for you

Regards

Mamoun

Related posts:

Allah: The God of The Quran and The Bible

Written by Rasheed Gadir

June 12, 2008 at 7:57 pm

7 Responses

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  1. Well clearly not because early christians and jews believed the name of the God of Abraham and Isaac was YHVH therefore Q and R=False, this is mentioned over 6800 times in Hebrew Masoretic text. Postulates = Something assumed without proof. You can only do that where there is no evidence to the contrary.

    Rob Hiengler

    June 26, 2008 at 3:32 pm

  2. Rob,

    Did you not know that the Masoretic text is a very late text, dating to the 9th-11th century CE. The Aramaic text is mush older, predating both Islam and the Masoretic Text. The Aramaic text uses Alah as the name of the god of Abraham. Aramaic was the language of Jesus and his disciples.

    The more learned Christians, like Henry B. Wright Professor of Theology at Yale University answer a similar question as follows:

    Q: The Yale Response seems to imply that Allah is the same God that Christians worship. Is this true?

    A: Implicit in this question are two sub-questions: 1) whether it is appropriate for Christians to call the God of the Bible “Allah,” and 2) whether Muslims and Christians worship the same God. Regarding the first question, we do not hesitate to refer to the God of the Bible as Allah, as Arab Christians and Arabic-speaking Jews since long before the time of Muhammad have used the name Allah to refer to God. There is clearly nothing wrong or evil in the name “Allah” – it is simply the Arabic word for God. Indeed there is no other word in Arabic for “God.” Thus all Arabic Christian Bible translations of John 3:16 say “For Allah so loved the world…” In Acts 2:11, when Arab visitors to Jerusalem heard the Apostles “declaring the mighty works of God” in Arabic, the Apostles can only have used the word “Allah” (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) to declare those works. Furthermore the Arabic word “Allah” is the cognate of the Aramaic word “Alaha,” which the Syriac Peshitta Bible uses for God. And that same Aramaic word for God (pronounced with a Canaanite-shifted accent) was used by Jesus on the cross when he cried out “Alohi, Alohi, lama sabachthani?” This same word is also cognate with the Hebrew divine names “El,” “Elohim,” et

    YHWH is most probably a pronoun from the Aramaic root WH which means He – see: http://www.answers.com/topic/ha-shem?method=26&initiator=FFANS

    Rasheed

    Rasheed

    July 1, 2008 at 12:29 pm

  3. Dear,
    Thank you for explaining that both Arab christian and muslims use the word Allah. But let me tell you something my dear, Allah of the bible, the new testement, never orders His follower to kill the non christian. Read your quran, Al tawbee, and answere me. the My Allah asks me to love my enemy and forgive them, to bless my persecutors and pray for them. Jesus himself was an example for me when he forgave those who cruscified him. Any way, you dont even believe that He was crucified. I will never accept the concept that says that muslims and christian believe in the same God, Allah, it is just a matter of using the same word by Arabs.

    rozey

    July 16, 2008 at 9:25 am

  4. Dear Rozey

    Thank you for commenting.

    I invite you to look again at the evidence in an objective manner. You may not want to accept Islam, or believe the Quran and the the Prophet. But Why write off millions of Christians including some of the earliest known Christian communities like those in Egypt and Syria ? I have lived with those people, and their understanding of Allah is completely different from what you are saying.

    Rasheed

    Rasheed

    July 18, 2008 at 1:25 pm

  5. ALLAH AS GOD DOES NOT APPEAR UNTIL MUHAMMED’S SUPPOSED REVELATION FROM GABRIEL . THE ABRAHAMIC FAITH PREDATES THAT BY THOUSANDS OF YEARS AND ALTHOUGH GOD IS KNOWN BY MANY NAMES I AM THAT I AM, YAHWEH, ELI, ADONAI HE DOES NOT APPEAR AS ALLAH UNTIL MUHAMMED’S CLAIM THOUSANDS OF YEARS AFTER ABRAHAM . THE ARABS OF MECCA AND MEDINA WORSHIPPED MANY GODS OR IDOLS AND THAT IS WHY MUHAMMED HAD TO VANQUISH THEM IN MECCA AND MEDINA BEFORE HE COULD ESTABLISH ISLAM BY THE SWORD .

    MICHAEL

    February 19, 2009 at 7:11 am

  6. ISAIAH CHAPTER 9 VERSE 6 SAYS LONG BEFORE JESUS BIRTH “FOR UNTO US A CHILD IS BORN UNTO US A SON IS GIVEN AND THE GOVERNMENT SHALL BE UPON HIS SHOULDER AND HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED , WONDERFUL, COUNSELLOR, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER THE PRINCE OF PEACE. THAT CAN ONLY REFER TO ONE PERSON, JESUS CHRIST. THAT FROM A TRUE PROPHET IN THE 8TH CENTURY B.C.

    MICHAEL

    February 19, 2009 at 7:59 am

  7. Michael,
    Thanks for the comment.

    I refer you to my post Allah is the God of The Quran and The Bible.

    You can see that not only was the god of Abraham known as Allah but this was most probably the name used by jesus.

    Rasheed

    Rasheed

    February 22, 2009 at 11:33 am


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