Christian – Muslims Q & A session
Dear Bill & Don,
You have asked so many good questions in your latest comments, I decided to collate my answers together in a questions and answers session and give them a separate post, taking the form of a Questions and Answers session.
Background:
Islam emphasizes the reality and importance of the hereafter, The Day of resurrection, where every human will be physically resurrected to face judgement. It is as real as this world we live in it. The resurrection is a corporal and not spiritual one.
The hereafter is the everlasting life. It is what really matters. Our life in this world is insignificant compared to the hereafter. Your ultimate fate is either everlasting paradise or everlasting torment in Hell.
Islam teaches that life on earth is nothing but a very short, temporary existence where people are tried and tested from adolescence till death.
Muslims do not ignore the Grace and Forgiveness of God to the believer, The importance of repentance. As I have said in a previous comment, a Muslim should continually repent and ask God for forgiveness of sins.
Below I will provide my answers to your questions. Where applicable, I will provide the verses from Quran and Hadith that I basing my answers on.
God says in the Quran:
[39:41] Lo! We have revealed unto thee (Muhammad) the Scripture for mankind with truth. Then whosoever goes right it is for his soul, and whosoever strays, strays only to its hurt. And thou art not a warder over them.
Q1: What do you mean by Association of partners to God? Do you mean to say that idolatry considered unforgivable (ie, Catholics and Buddists worshiping statues)?
Ascribing divinity to entities other than God is association. Worshiping or invoking deities other than God also falls under the same category, similarly, The Christian Trinitarian theology which says Jesus is also god, The worship of Mary, The Saints, relics, Shrines, Statues, The cross, all these involve the belief that these people/ things can help us in a divine way and are thus idolatry.
God has created us in a perfect way, he feeds and cloth us, protect us, and allowed us to have the intelligence to conquer and utilise the universe. Giving credit to others for all these privileges is unforgivable: He said in the Quran:
[Quran 4:116] Lo! Allah pardons not that partners should be ascribed unto Him. He pardons all save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribes partners unto Allah has wandered far astray.
Q2: Are you saying that no amount of good deeds can make-up for this weighty sin?
That is right. The only thing that negate this sin is to confess before your death that there is no god save Him, for God says in the Quran:
[Quran 3:91] Lo! those who disbelieve, and die in disbelief, the (whole) earth full of gold would not be accepted from such an one if it were offered as a ransom . Theirs will be a painful doom and they will have no helpers.
Q3: Does this mean that certain sins carry different weight?
Yes, different sins carry different weight.
God says in the Quran:
[53:31] And unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth, that He may reward those who do evil with that which they have done, and reward those who do good with goodness.
[53:32] Those who avoid enormities of sin and abominations, save the unwilled offences – (for them) lo! thy Lord is of vast mercy. He is Best Aware of you (from the time) when He created you from the earth, and when ye were hidden in the bellies of your mothers. Therefor ascribe not purity unto yourselves. He is Best Aware of him who wardeth off (evil).
Q4: Do you need to balance the weight of certain sins vs the weight of certain good deeds?
Generally speaking, there are major sins that could incur severe punishment. These include murder, adultery, false testimony, mistreating parents amongst others. There are also righteous deeds that have higher rewards. However, God alone can determine the weight of both sins and good deeds. There are factors that are important in deciding the weight of a certain deed, and these factors such as sincerity, intentions, are only known to Him. It is His judgement that matters.
Take the example, someone who performs prayers with an absent mind, hoping to finish it as soon as possible and get on with other things. This person can not expect the same reward as someone who reflect in his presence before God, and utter his words with sincerity and strong belief. Someone who helps an old lady cross the road so that other people might see and praise him is not like one doing the same deed solely for the purpose of obeying God command of showing compassion.
[57:29] That the People of the Scripture may know that they control naught of the bounty of Allah, but that the bounty is in Allah’s hand to give to whom He will. And Allah is of Infinite Bounty.
Q5: Who judges us and what happens to us after we are judged?
God alone judges us. He can command any of his creation to execute his judgment, but the judgement itself is His preserve.
[28:88] And call not, besides Allah, on another god. There is no god but He. Everything (that exists) will perish except His own Face. To Him belongs the judgement, and to Him will ye (all) be brought back.
Q6: Do people who have good deeds that greatly outweigh their sins receive a greater reward than those who barely squeak by?
In general yes, but as I said above, things like sincerity and intentions are taken into account. It is not just adding the numbers of sins/ good deeds.
Q7: How does doing a good deed pay the price for disobedience?
Q8. the sin of disobedience to God’s commandments remains (Thou Shalt Not Steal). How does praying several times a day, donating money to charity, volunteering for whatever make up for the harm caused infidelity or murder?
Believers must ask God for forgiveness and repent and show remorse. If you are sincere in your repentance, you will no doubt strive to do what God commands, and try to avoid what He dislikes.
You can not pay God to forgive you, but you can humbly ask for forgiveness and show remorse. God is Most Forgiving, Most Compassionate towards believers. There is NO guarantee and you can not get forgiveness from anyone other than God, The Merciful.
God says:
[3:134] Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; those who control their wrath and are forgiving toward mankind;- for Allah loves those who do good; [3:135] And those who, having done something to be ashamed of, or wronged their own souls, earnestly bring Allah to mind, and ask for forgiveness for their sins,- and who can forgive sins except Allah?- and are never obstinate in persisting knowingly in (the wrong) they have done.
Q9: After we are judged, do we return to the presence of God?
The believers who enters Paradise may dwell in God’s presence. Idolaters can not:
[Quran 3:77] Lo! those who purchase a small gain at the cost of Allah’s covenant and their oaths, they have no portion in the Hereafter. Allah will neither speak to them nor look upon them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He make them grow. Theirs will be a painful doom.
As for the believer in the Last Day, God says:
[75:22] That day will faces be resplendent,
[75:23] Looking toward their Lord;
Q10: God is perfect and no imperfect being can dwell in His presence.
It is for God alone to decide who dwells in His presence. He commanded that disbelievers and idolaters will not dwell in His presence. Believers whose sins have been Forgiven can dwell in His presence, by His permission, and subject to His will.
Q11: Does He issue us forgiveness based on our good deeds and confession of Him while on earth?
God issues forgiveness, subject to a sincere confession of true faith, sincerity, good and sincere deed bases on His knowledge of us and His will.
Q12: why were Adam and Eve cast out of the Garden of Eden and caused to die? As far as we know, they committed only one sin:
The punishment that Adam incurred was limited. He had to endure life on earth for a short time until his death. He repented and God accepted him back. In a rather short time he will be back in Paradise, and for ever.
Adam is prophet because he received revelation from God. He saw paradise and the angles. Death is the destiny of all things. Animals die and they do not sin as they are not responsible in the way humans are, nevertheless, God decreed that they should die.
God says in the Quran:
[Quran 2:37] Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the relenting, the Merciful.
[28:88] And call not, besides Allah, on another god. There is no god but He. Everything (that exists) will perish except His own Face. To Him belongs the Command, and to Him will ye (all) be brought back.
Q13: What do Muslims see as the purpose of Mortality?
Mortality was decreed by God on all things . The purpose of life and death is that people are tried and tested, for God gave us intelligence and a free will to choose between good or evil and between true faith and disbelief. Death signals the end exam time. God says:
[67:1] Blessed is He in Whose hand is the Sovereignty, and, He is Able to do all things.
[67:2] Who hath created life and death that He may try you which of you is best in conduct; and He is the Mighty, the Forgiving,
Q14: Do Muslims view God as a being who loves us and is the father of our spirits?
God loves those who believe in Him. He tolerates the disbelievers and blasphemers, and gives them the opportunity to repent until their time is up. He is the Creators of our flesh , bones and spirits and everything else.
Q15: what is our relationship to him and what is our relationship to each other?
We are God’s servants and He is our Lord. To each other we are bothers. There are various levels of brotherhood between humans: We can be brothers in humanity, Brothers in faith, Brothers in kinship etc.
Q16: Are you denying that when we sin against God our sins are not deserving of an infinite penalty?
It is not for me , you or anyone else do decide what a certain sin deserve in the way of penalty. This is God’s judgment and I can only say a certain sin is deserving of a particular penalty based on what God says. I can only say that God decreed that a disbeliever who dies whilst denying God or associating partners will not be forgiven. Anything else is subject to God’s will and mercy. God said:
[39:53] Say: O My slaves who have been prodigal to their own hurt! Despair not of the mercy of Allah, Who forgiveth all sins. Lo! He is the Forgiving, the Merciful.
[39:54] Turn unto your Lord repentant, and surrender unto Him, before there come unto you the doom, when ye cannot be helped.
[39:55] And follow the better (guidance) of that which is revealed unto you from your Lord, before the doom cometh on you suddenly when ye know not,
[39:56] Lest any soul should say: Alas, my grief that I was unmindful of Allah, and I was indeed among the scoffers!
[39:57] Or should say: If Allah had but guided me I should have been among the dutiful!
[39:58] Or should say, when it seeth the doom: Oh, that I had but a second chance that I might be among the righteous!
[39:59] (But now the answer will be): Nay, for My revelations came unto thee, but thou didst deny them and wast scornful and wast among the disbelievers.
Q 17: How do you propose that we will compensate God for sinning against Him?
See the verses from the Quran just above this question for answer
Q18: The only difference is what they define good deeds to be.
Nope. The definitions of good and bad deeds are more common between Muslims and Christians than you might think.:
On good deeds, summed them up saying:
[16:90] Lo! Allah enjoineth justice and kindness, and giving to kinsfolk, and forbiddeth lewdness and abomination and wickedness. He exhorteth you in order that ye may take heed.
And on evil deeds He said:
[6:150] Say: Come, bring your witnesses who can bear witness that Allah forbade (all) this. And if they bear witness, do not thou bear witness with them. Follow thou not the whims of those who deny Our revelations, those who believe not in the Hereafter and deem (others) equal with their Lord.
[6:151] Say: Come, I will recite unto you that which your Lord hath made a sacred duty for you: That ye ascribe no thing as partner unto Him and that ye do good to parents, and that ye slay not your children because of penury – We provide for you and for them – and that ye draw not nigh to lewd things whether open or concealed. And that ye slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, save in the course of justice. This He hath command you, in order that ye may discern.
[6:152] And approach not the wealth of the orphan save with that which is better, till he reach maturity. Give full measure and full weight, in justice. We task not any soul beyond its scope. And if ye give your word, do justice thereunto, even though it be (against) a kinsman; and fulfil the covenant of Allah. This He commandeth you that haply ye may remember.
[Pickthal 6:153] And (He commandeth you, saying): This is My straight path, so follow it. Follow not other ways, lest ye be parted from His way. This hath He ordained for you, that ye may ward off (evil).
Q19: The Bible says even our righteous acts are like filthy menstrual rags in God’s sight (Isaiah 64:6) if we are doing them to earn God’s favour.
The Quran says righteous deeds are for the benefit of the person who does them. They do not benefit God, but He loves those who strive to be righteous
Q20: what happens to those who never had the opportunity to learn of the one true god before they left this earth? Are they also out of luck?
This is a question where there is no agreement between Muslims scholars. I personally am inclined towards the opinion which says that, All nations have actually received a revelation at some point in their history, and that All humans are capable of finding true faith of monotheism and discover the falsehood of idolatry practices if they use their brains to think about the creation, its organisation and splendour. God says in the Quran:
[2:164] Lo! In the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of night and day, and the ships which run upon the sea with that which is of use to men, and the water which Allah sendeth down from the sky, thereby reviving the earth after its death, and dispersing all kinds of beasts therein, and (in) the ordinance of the winds, and the clouds obedient between heaven and earth: are signs (of Allah’s Sovereignty) for people who have sense.
and He says:
[35:24] Lo! We have sent thee with the Truth, a bearer of glad tidings and a warner; and there is not a nation but a warner hath passed among them.
Q21: If you commit a sin that harms someone else, how can you atone for that sin?
Islam puts a great emphasis on personal responsibilty. Every human is accountable for his own actions. You can not get someone else to pay the price of your misdeeds. God says in the Quran:
[35:18] And no burdened soul can bear another’s burden, and if one heavy laden crieth for (help with) his load, naught of it will be lifted even though he (unto whom he crieth) be of kin. Thou warnest only those who fear their Lord in secret, and have established worship. He who groweth (in goodness), groweth only for himself, (he cannot by his merit redeem others). Unto Allah is the journeying.
Every human has a personal account. In this account, righteous deeds are rewarded with credits whilst sins are debited. obviously, certain deeds have higher rewards than others and likewise for sins.
If you commit a crime against another person, you are also required to compensate that person, either in this world or in the hereafter. So, in the case you mentioned, of a criminal harming someone you love, if that criminal is caught and the Law applied to him, that is his punishment. If the victim forgives him, she gets credits for that, if his crime goes undetected, he will face his victim in the hereafter and pay for his crime from his personal account. If he does not have enough credits to pay, then he takes debits from the victim’s account. There is an accurate Balance, and nothing is unaccounted for. There is Absolute Justice.
Abû Hurayrah relates in Sahîh Muslim:
The Prophet (peace be upon him) asked us: “Do you know who is bankrupt?”
We replied: “The one among us who is bankrupt is someone who has neither gold nor silver nor any provision.”
The Prophet (peace be upon him) then said: “Among my people, the one who is bankrupt is the one who – after praying, fasting, and paying charity – arrives on the Day of Judgment having cursed one person and slandered another, assaulted another, and misappropriated the wealth of someone else. Then those people will be given of his good deeds, and if his good deeds run out before redress is made, then some of their sins will be taken from them and put upon him. Then he will be cast into Hell.”
This why we need to do righteous deeds. It is the only currency acceptable in the hereafter, it constitutes your most important ‘pension fund’.
N.B: Q21 is taken from my post: Islam Views on Salvation, see link below
Related Posts:
Hard Questions 
Rasheed,
All I can do is tell you what the Bible says. All liars will have their part in the lake of fire (Revelation 21:8). Jesus said that whoever looks at a woman with lust has committed adultery with her in his heart (Matt 5:28). Certainly we’re all guilty of breaking God’s law. The penalty for any of these is infinite (Daniel 12:2, Matt 25:46, 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9, and on and on and on).
Any good judge requires that payment for crimes must be made. You have nothing to offer God but the filthy rags of your good deeds (Isaiah 64:6), which is repulsive to Him. Even if they were worth something, they are not of infinite value, and cannot atone for your sins.
I’ve never heard any Muslim even come close to being able to explain how Allah can maintain his justice and let guilty criminals off in exchange for good deeds. To me it is how Islam is refuted. You owe it to yourself to find a reasonable answer, or repent and put your faith in Jesus. If I thought begging you would help, I would certainly do it. Please get this figured out. Eternity is a long time to be wrong.
I appreciate your time. Thanks for the conversation.
Bill
Bill
May 24, 2008 at 12:13 am
Hi Bil, just want to say I appreciate all I have read from Rasheeds blog. Some Christian organisations preach no salvation for Adam. The Quaran teaches Adam repented. Who is right? Either could be right. God will reveal truth to all men during the Judgement period. There is no need to argue these points. You highlight (Revelation 21:8). All liars will have their part in the lake of fire that will happen after God’s word is made known to all mankind and there is no excuse for ignorance of people who continue to refuse to know and speak truth. You also misinterpret (Isaiah 64:6) are you are applying this personally to Rasheed. If that is the case you are judgeing this man Luke 6:37 says “stop judging and you will not be judged etc..” You quoted the following “You have nothing to offer God but the filthy rags of your good deeds which is repulsive to Him. Even if they were worth something, they are not of infinite value, and cannot atone for your sins”. Isaiah was speakig in that scripture to the Jewish Nation who were polluting the land If you would read Isaiah 65:11,12 But you men are those leaving Me (Yhaouvah). “and I will destine YOU men to the sword and YOU will all of you bow down to being slaughtered for the reason that I called but you did not answer; I spoke but you did not listen and YOU kept doing what was bad in my eyes and the thing in what I took no delight YOU chose etc..” These were prophetic warnings Isaiah spoke prior to the Jewish nation being taken captive to Babylon.
J Manders
September 23, 2010 at 1:50 am
Dear Bill,
I have to say that I am very disappointed that you are replacing a real debate with over simplifications and pre-conceived prejudices. For despite my detailed explanation on how criminals are not let off, until their victims are satisfied and compensated, you insist on reiterating the same.
In any case, I do not see how you consider it logical that:
God lets off criminals by virtue of God paying the price of their crimes to…God!
If God is paying Himself for someone else’s crimes, then:
1: The payment is obviously redundant,
2: The criminal walks free anyway,
3: and the victim is left without redress!!
Allow me to quote you from your other comment, you said:
Have you not left out someone very important from this equation: The victim !
So all that a murderer has to do is to lie in bed for a few seconds, committing himself to a life led by Jesus.
And you want me to accept this is really logical and was taught by a great prophet like Jesus. I think not
How can think this is more befitting than God showing mercy and forgiveness, the criminal pays the victim and God compensates the victim. If humans consider showing forgiveness is superior to exacting vengeance, How can you imply that God is incapable of forgiveness?
Thanks
Rasheed
Rasheed
May 24, 2008 at 1:57 am
Rasheed,
God owns the universe and everything in it. If someone steals from me, He’s taking God’s money–not mine. If someone murdered me, He’s murdering God’s child. Our sins are against God and God alone (Psalm 51:4). However, even if you were able to disprove Christianity, you wouldn’t be one iota closer to proving that Allah isn’t a corrupt judge.
You have no means of compensating God for your sins against Him, and I’ve not heard you even attempt to explain how this might happen. For the sake of your own eternity, please figure this out.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill
May 26, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Bill,
You said:
Please tell me one thing: What can your compensation possibly add to the Sovereign Owner of the universe? The whole universe twice over, will not add to, nor subtract anything from the Sovereign.
Allah is Merciful, Forgiving and Compassionate, therefore if He forgives, He will not insist on ‘compensation’.
In any case, to forgive, essentially means not to require or demand compensation,
I hope, you do not want to say that God is incapable of forgiveness, given that it is a virtue that mere humans can and are capable of.
You also said:
As for your assertion that if someone steals from you, he is stealing God’s money, I believe that, because your model of atonement does not provide any redress to the victims, you are now denying that any harm at all befalls the victims of murder and theft !!
There is no justice system that is fair and equitable that denies the harm experienced by victims, let alone the perfect justice of God.
Thanks
Rasheed
Rasheed
May 26, 2008 at 8:36 pm
Rasheed,
Again, trying to poke holes in Christianity doesn’t prove Islam.
Again, our sins are against God, and I know for sure that the true Creator of the universe is infinitely just. This demands that payment must be made. Due to this quality, He cannot just forgive sins. Since you propose that this is what the god of Islam does, he is unjust, and therefore, he cannot be the Creator. Therefore Islam is a false religion.
Again, if you don’t have a means to pay the penalty for your sins, you will pay them yourself in hell for eternity. I truly don’t want that to happen. I’m getting tired of repeating myself; maybe I’ve fallen way short in expressing myself clearly, but I really don’t think this is hard to understand. Please, please think about your sins, and how you’re going to give an account for them someday.
Thanks,
Bill
Bill
May 28, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Rasheed,
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. It is very educational to me to understand what Muslims believe regarding these topics. I haven’t quite figured out the purpose of your blog, though. Is it to proselytize the Muslim faith or is it simply a forum to discuss different religious doctrines in an attempt to arrive at the truth? I am not as strident as some as to try and disprove one’s dearly held faith. I believe that one must come to a knowledge of truth as testified by the Spirit of God before one can be held accountable for the acceptance or rejection of said truth. With that in mind, I would love to expound upon what Mormon Doctrine has to say regarding the above questions. However, I don’t want to presume that you would be interested or that it is in keeping with the intent of this blog. I would only do so with your permission.
Don
May 29, 2008 at 12:49 am
Don,
Thanks for your comment, and please feel free to express your beliefs and ideas without hindrance.
The blog is intended to be a forum for people to exchange well considered views, beliefs and opinions, and I write my own views based on my own beliefs and understanding.
Islam is a missionary religion, whose followers are required to convey its message to others. We are not required to convert anyone, but we are under an obligation to convey the message of Islam, and where necessary explain our agreements and disagreements with others.
Thanks
Rasheed
Rasheed
May 29, 2008 at 1:42 am
Bill,
I am a mazed, for you say:
If this is all you can offer to disprove Islam, then Islam is indeed irrefutable. ,
Forget what I believe in, let us just go through what the Bible says about your assertion that ‘God cannot just forgive sins‘:
Psalms 130:
and in Jeremiah 36:
I can not reconcile what you say with what these, and hundred other, verses from the Bible say about God and his Mercy and Forgiveness.
finally,
I am grateful for your concern for me, but I am quite happy to submit myself to the Mercy and Forgiveness of Allah. I will NOT seek forgiveness from ANY OTHER source. I WILL NOT rely on ANY OTHER person or his presumed sacrifice to redeem my own sins. I seek forgiveness and mercy from Allah alone, and I am prepared to accept the consequences of my decision.
Rasheed
Rasheed
May 29, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Greetings Rasheed
Allah whose name you have been given will forgive repentant sinners. Does the Quran teach the same as scripture Romans 1:18 “For God’s wrath is being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who are suppressing the truth in an unrighteous way? Romans 1:28-33 And just as they did not approve of holding God in accurate knowledge, God gave them up to a dissaproved mental state, to do the things not fitting, filled as they were with all unrighteousness being full of murder,envy, strife, deceit, malicious disposition, being whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, haughty, self-assuming, inventors of injurious things, without understanding, having no natural affection, merciless although those know full well the righteous decree of God that these practicing these things are deserving of death. They not only keep doing them but also consent with those pacticing them.
Persons purporting to know and serve the God of Abraham have a duty to be obedient to the teachings of the bible and the Quran. Abraham was willing to do all that God commanded him. So will we if we are children of Abraham.
J Manders
October 13, 2010 at 2:00 am
Rasheed,
Thank you for your invitation. I must admit that your faithfulness to your beliefs and your faith in Allah is admirable. Mormonism is a missionary religion as well. In fact, I served as a full-time missionary for my church in Southern Spain (including Ceuta, a Spanish outpost in Morroco) for two years (1986 – 87). At the time, I had no clue about the beliefs of others, only my own simple faith and desire to share the Gospel and be obedient to a call from God.
I would be interested in knowing how you came to know about the truthfulness of Mohammad’s teachings (I assume you believe them as such since you seem very assured of them). Is it part of your family’s tradition? Is it by means of personal revelation from Allah? Is it simply by reasoning after careful study?
For myself, I believe the teachings of Mormonism because I have felt God’s Spirit bear witness to my spirit of their truthfulness. I have a good understanding of the teachings in our scripture, but yearn to have a deeper understanding. When I study, I often feel a calm reassurance that what I have learned is true. New understanding or enlightenment illuminates my mind and excites my heart. When I haven’t quite got myself in sync with the will or intent of God, I have a feeling of confusion or hesitation. I have learned throughout my life to base my decisions on this pattern. It has never failed me.
Our founding prophet, Joseph Smith, actually saw God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. He endured horrendous persecution and eventually sealed his testimony of this vision with his blood. However, he said he could never deny what he saw and experienced, for to do so would be to deny God. I have not seen God, but I believe Joseph Smith via the testimony of the Spirit.
As missionaries, our purpose was to find those prepared to receive Christ’s true gospel. We have been told that the field is white, all ready to harvest….but I’m here to tell ya that it ain’t easy to do the harvesting. I firmly believe that all of God’s children will one day know (whether in this life or the next) for themselves of the divinity of Jesus Christ and will have to witness before God that they accept Him as their Savior and will obey His commandments. This knowledge will come as surely as it came to the prophets who talked with God Himself. For some, they will accept it on faith in this life and have it perfectly confirmed to them later. Others will not show interest in this life but will eventually have to acknowledge the truth. Still others will reject the truth and be faithless. I don’t know how the Lord will judge the second group, but I do know that the faithless will probably be condemned.
For this reason, I teach what I believe to be true and hope that it will find a place in one’s heart for the seed to take root and grow. I am hopeful that those who are faithful to any inaccurate traditions of their fathers, but are otherwise willing servants of God, will one day have a chance to come to a perfect understanding of the divinity of Christ and His gospel. However, only God can judge the intents of their hearts and whether they have been given adequate opportunity in mortality to accept the Gospel.
I am amazed at how much truth our great religions have in common. It is a testimony to me that God has been involved with His children from the beginning. It makes me wonder why we condemn one another so viciously when someone doesn’t believe every last jot and tittle exactly as we do. I also recognize that many evil and conspiring men highlight our differences in order to exploit us for their own gain.
When will Muslim nations forcefully reject this manipulation by the likes of Al Qaeda, Hezbollah, Hamas, and Amadinejad? When will Christian nations reject the manipulations of leaders like Mike Huckabee, Sam Brownback, and others (see republican party nomination process). When will we wake up and realize that we are brothers seeking to serve the same God who created us? Why do we permit the spirit of contention to overtake us and give earthly power to the few?
My prescription for unity and peace: Have faith in God, do good to others, seek the truth and follow it the best way you can, and then let God be our perfectly just and merciful judge as to our heavenly reward. Those who attempt to usurp this divine role are liars and only serve the purposes of Satan.
Thanks again for the forum.
Don
Don
May 29, 2008 at 9:05 pm
Don,
Does Mormonism teach original sin? Do you also teach that humans are inherently good or evil? Just wondering…
Rasheed,
All your verses about mercy and forgiveness are based upon the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Where there is sin, he has paid the penalty for it.
This is not to say that sin does not have consequences. There are legal consequences, and consequences imposed by God upon this earth for sin. If I murder someone, I am held accountable by my government for life in prison or the death penalty. There is also punishment from God. But because of the blood of Jesus Christ, I do not have to continue to pay for these sins in eternity.
Any good works I do are not to balance a scale, but in response to the work of God and His Spirit in my life.
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 6, 2008 at 5:53 pm
The Miracles of Jesus
According to the Qur’an, Jesus, on whom be peace, performed the following miracles by Allah’s leave:
1. Spoke while he was only a baby.
2. Healed those born blind.
3. Healed the lepers.
4. Revived the dead.
5. Breathed life into a bird made of clay.
In the Qur’an Allah quotes Jesus, peace be upon him, as saying:
Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah’s leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers.
And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. (Qur’an 3: 49-51).
Again, in the Qur’an Allah tells us about the situation on the Day of Judgement:
In the day when Allah gathers together the messengers and says: What was your response (from mankind)? they say: We have no knowledge. Lo! Thou, only Thou art the Knower of Things Hidden.
When Allah says: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto you and unto your mother; how I strengthened you with the holy Spirit, so that you spoke unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught you the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how you did shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and did blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and you did heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission . . . (Qur’an 5:109-110)
Not all of these miracles are recorded in the canonical gospels, the four gospels contained in the Christian Bible.
The fact that Jesus spoke while he was yet a baby is not written anywhere in the Bible. This should not be surprising, because none of the Gospels can claim to recover every single event in the life of Jesus. Instead, the gospel According to John seeks to emphasize that the events were too many to record.
Similarly, the miracle of breathing life into a bird made of clay is not attested by the Christian Bible. This too should not make us wonder. It is obvious that the writers of the gospels could write down only the tradition that was available to them. Furthermore, they could not write down everything they knew about Jesus for they were writing on papyrus material that were very limited in length.
What is worthy to notice here is that the Prophet Muhammad, may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him, was honest enough to promulgate this information about Jesus. The religion taught by God through Muhammad would deny the divinity of Jesus. Any human being, therefore, who wished to deny the divinity of Jesus would have tried to belittle Jesus. Since Christians looked upon the miracles of Jesus as a proof of his divinity, we might expect that any human being who tries to deny the divinity of Jesus would not have informed people of miracles not previously known to them. He might have even tried to deny some of the miracles recorded in the canonical gospels. On the other hand, the prophet Muhammad honestly conveyed the message delivered to him from Allah. (May the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.)
Allah tells us the truth without fear. Human beings trying to win followers tell us only what is conducive to winning us over. They usually withhold information that could lead to opposite conclusions. On the other hand, Allah informs us about the miracles of Jesus even if people use this information to support their prior commitment to the doctrine of the divinity of Jesus. Allah does not need to win worshippers. Those who worship Allah does so for their own good. And those who worship false gods do so to their own detriment.
What Allah emphasizes, though, is that the miracles of Jesus do not prove he was divine. The miracles he performed were a sign, a proof, that he was God’s messenger. He performed them with God’s help and permission. Those who use his miracles as proof of his divinity would choose to forget the following sayings of Jesus:
I can of my own authority do nothing. (John 5:30)
They also forget the declaration of Peter:
Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves know. (Acts 2:22 KJV).
These passages suggest that Jesus did not do miracles on his own. These, rather were accomplished by God’s leave. Allah reminds us of this. Jesus also constantly repeated to his audience that the miracles he performed were by God’s leave.
Ahmedemin
June 14, 2008 at 8:25 am
Andrew,
We do not teach the doctrine of Original Sin. Adam fell that men might be. In other words, we teach that Adam’s disobedience was necessary in order to bring to pass Heavenly Father’s Great Plan of Happiness or Plan of Salvation. Central to this plan, a savior would be provided to atone for Adam and Eve’s sin as well as all the sins of their descendants. We have an article of faith which further states:
We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.
As a result, we consider it an abomination to baptize an innocent infant, born without sin.
As for your second question, we teach that the spirit of man is inherently good, where as the mortal body is corrupt. We have a scripture that talks about the natural man being an enemy to god. This is defined as the appetites of the flesh. Part of our reason for being here is to learn to submit our bodies’ appetites to the will of our spirits. Eventually, as a result of the resurrection, we will all have a glorified and perfect body, perfectly united with our spirits.
Don
Don
June 14, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Ahmedemin,
Your reasoning for Muhammad attributing miracles to Jesus is not as sound as it appears. Considering that Muhammad would attempt to win Christians (many who were only Christians by association and not by belief) to Islam, denying Christ’s divinity would not have hurt his case among many of the heretical teachers who were teaching the same. Denying miracles of Christ would have made his religion too easy to dismiss by those who knew Christianity. Most of the men Christianity has called heretics denied in some way the divinity of Christ, but confirmed his miracles.
The fact of the matter is that miracles confirmed Christ’s divinity, not because they were miracles, but because he claimed to be God. If God had not approved of this claim, there would be no miracles. Considering the resurrection (which must obviously be dismissed by any non-Christian), Jesus could not have raised himself were he not God.
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 14, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Ahmedemin,
First a question, then a comment.
Is the Q’uran a product of the visitation of the angel Gabriel to Muhammad in the cave near Mecca in 610? In other words, is all that is written a result of what he learned from Gabriel? Or did he have further visitations and subsequently wrote down what he learned as they came along?
My comment:
The fact that Islam denies the divinity of Jesus is proof to me that it is a religion devised of man. The angel Gabriel visited Mary and said (Luke 1:31-33),
31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
The Son of the Highest (The Son of the Father) and his kingdom shall have no end. This proclaims his divinity as the Son of God.
Gabriel also visited Zacharias to proclaim the mission of his soon to born son, John the Baptist, in which he proclaims his future mission is to prepare the way for the coming of the Lord, meaning Jesus.
Gabriel would never proclaim Jesus’ divinity on one hand and deny it on the other to Muhammad.
Christianity does not say that his miracles alone prove his divinity. Rather, his own words proclaim his divinity. See John 8:58, “Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.” and See Matt 22:32-33, “32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.”
It is interesting to me that Muslims claim that Muhammad has access to ancient knowledge that disproves the divinity of Jesus. Where are those source texts if they are referring to texts other than the Q’uran? The Q’uran is much less ancient than the source texts of the New Testament. If the source of the Q’uran is from the visitation to Muhammad in 610, why does it conflict with the more ancient teachings of the New Testament regarding the divinity of Jesus?
Islamic teaching has missed the connection between Jehovah of the Torah/Old Testament and Jesus of the New Testament. The Elohists (Levite Priests) of the Northern Kingdom of Israel (approx 1500 years prior to Muhammad) taught the doctrine that no one knew the name of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob prior to His visitation to Moses in the burning bush in which he announced his name as Ehyeh (I AM). The Torah subsequently refers to His name as Jehovah thereafter. Prior to that he was known by the name Elohim, a generic name reserved for the most high god or gods (Elohim is a plural masculine noun). Allah may be the Arabic derivative of Elohim. Note that any reference to Elohim after the burning bush may either be referencing Jehovah as a substitute for uttering his proper name, or perhaps referencing his Father, who’s name remains unknown. Since it was considered blasphemy at the time of Christ (during 610 as well?) to pronounce the name of Jehovah, Elohim or Adonai was more commonly used.
Because of this confusion, it is natural for Muhammad or the Jews to not understand that Allah (Elohim) referred to two distinct personages. (I don’t know if that last statement is true, it is simply my own opinion.)
Gratefully, we have the testimony of a relatively modern prophet who saw both Elohims (The Father and the Son) in 1820. Joseph Smith records the following in his personal history:
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
I have felt the spirit of God testify to me that what Joseph Smith said of this event is true. I accept it on faith and everything I believe stems from this testimony. Anyone can ask God for the same witness if they truly desire to know if it is true. His only requirements is this: “But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering.” (James 1:6)
How does a Muslim reconcile his belief? Is it through intellectual reasoning only, or is there some sort of divine revelation that is personally received? It is clear to me that the intellectual reasoning must come after exercising one’s faith.
Don
June 14, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Don,
The Bible tells us that no one has seen (or can see) the Father. How then is it that Joseph Smith is exempt?
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 14, 2008 at 11:09 pm
Did i learn christianity with asking questions to Christians ? The Answer No, then you should make your own effort and read!
Here read this again it might make you find the right path!
I can of my own authority do nothing. (John 5:30)
Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves know. (Acts 2:22 KJV).
Its not worth argueing with you guys becuse God says in Quran !
Surah 109. Al-Kafirun (The Disbelievers, Atheists)
1. Say : O ye that reject Faith!
2. I worship not that which ye worship,
3. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
4. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,
5. Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
6. To you be your Way, and to me mine.
Surah 88. Al-Ghashiyya (The Overwhelming, The Pall)
1. Has the story reached thee of the overwhelming (Event)?
2. Some faces, that Day, will be humiliated,
3. Labouring (hard), weary,-
4. The while they enter the Blazing Fire,-
5. The while they are given, to drink, of a boiling hot spring,
6. No food will there be for them but a bitter Dhari’
7. Which will neither nourish nor satisfy hunger.
8. (Other) faces that Day will be joyful,
9. Pleased with their striving,-
10. In a Garden on high,
11. Where they shall hear no (word) of vanity:
12. Therein will be a bubbling spring:
13. Therein will be Thrones (of dignity), raised on high,
14. Goblets placed (ready),
15. And cushions set in rows,
16. And rich carpets (all) spread out.
17. Do they not look at the Camels, how they are made?-
18. And at the Sky, how it is raised high?-
19. And at the Mountains, how they are fixed firm?-
20. And at the Earth, how it is spread out?
21. Therefore do thou give admonition, for thou art one to admonish.
22. Thou art not one to manage (men’s) affairs.
23. But if any turn away and reject Allah,-
24. Allah will punish him with a mighty Punishment,
25. For to Us will be their return;
26. Then it will be for Us to call them to account.
Surah 112. Al-Ikhlas (The Unity, Sincerity, Oneness Of Allah)
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
4. And there is none like unto Him.
The Truth
Ahmedemin
June 14, 2008 at 11:17 pm
Andrew,
Very good point.
“The fact of the matter is that miracles confirmed Christ’s divinity, not because they were miracles, but because he claimed to be God. If God had not approved of this claim, there would be no miracles. Considering the resurrection (which must obviously be dismissed by any non-Christian), Jesus could not have raised himself were he not God.”
Your much more succinct comment posted before my wordy work was completed 😉
Don
Don
June 14, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Andrew
You said Jesus claimed him to be God???
Is there any pages in Bible Jesus says I m GOD ???
Is there any Pages Jesus talk about incarnation ???
Is there any pages in Bible Jesus says 3 Gods ???
Find this 3 not only 1 find all 3 and post it please! I didnt ask about Jesus says in Bible father but says I m Jesus I m God there is no God but me does he say that ? No but he says
Also is there any pages or writings Jesus say God entered my Body as a Spiritual way or explains this ? Nope but JEsus says
I can of my own authority do nothing. (John 5:30)
In other word i cant do anythinggggggggg, becuse i m a human Just like you it is God my creator who does the Miracles i m just Praying if God accepts miracle happens if not nothing can happen or in other word >>>>>>>>>>>> I can of my own authority do nothing. (John 5:30)
Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves know. (Acts 2:22 KJV).
So What did Moses do same thing right ? Miracles was he Son of God becuse god spoke with Moses nope he was a Prophet and Holy one.
I repeat my Question
Andrew
You said Jesus claimed him to be God???
Is there any pages in Bible Jesus says I m GOD ???
Is there any Pages Jesus talk about incarnation ???
Is there any pages in Bible Jesus says 3 Gods ???
Find this 3 not only 1 find all 3 and post it please! I didnt ask about Jesus says in Bible father but says I m Jesus I m God there is no God but me does he say that ? No but he says >>>> I can of my own authority do nothing. (John 5:30)
Also is there any pages or writings Jesus say God entered my Body as a Spiritual way or explains this ? Nope but JEsus says
I can of my own authority do nothing. (John 5:30)
The Truth!
Ahmedemin
June 14, 2008 at 11:23 pm
Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves know. (Acts 2:22 KJV).
OMG WOW >>> Jesus of Nazareth, A MAN ??? A HUMAN ??? APPROVED OF GOD AMONG YOU BY MIRACLES AND WONDERS AND SIGNS ??? Do you read what i m reading?
Ahmedemin
June 14, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Andrew,
Stephen saw the Father.
Acts 7:55-56
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the con of man standing on the right hand of God.
I assume you refer to John 6:45-46
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
This means in order to learn of the Father, you must first learn of His Son. In verse 46 the second phrase provides the qualification for any man to see the father and the third phrase uses the past tense verb “hath seen”, so it must have occurred before. Furthermore, Adam and Eve walked and talked with the Father in the Garden. Interestingly, the Father never appears without the Son at His side.
Don
Don
June 14, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Ahmedemin,
John 5:30, “30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Jesus is divine, but does not esteem himself to be higher than his father. It is impossible for him to do anything that is against the will of His Father, not because He is forbidden, but because it would be against His divine nature. Remember, Jesus was perfect “even as his father in heaven is perfect.” Perfection is a divine characteristic and there is only one way to be perfect.
Acts 2:22 simply states that Jesus was a man while in the flesh who performed miracles with the approval of God the Father. It does not disprove his divine nature at all. Rather it teaches that God himself is a divine man and we are created in their image (Genesis 6:26 Let US make man in OUR own image)
P.S. Please don’t get frustrated with us. We are teachers of our own faiths just as you are. I enjoy the exchanges as it helps me in my own personal study and helps solidify what I have already accepted as true by faith.
Don
June 14, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Don
You said: Jesus was perfect “even as his father in heaven is perfect.” Reading your comment I cannot imagine Jesus eating food and rushing to the call of nature as every human been doing, I cannot imagine a God who don’t know when the figs tree gives fruits? I cannot imagine God who cannot protect himself against a bunch of people who came to kill him and the list go on and on.
Most of the time I feel sorry for people who believe that God came down in human form and sacrificed himself to himself,,, why people forget the evolution of Christianity why forget the Nisea creed in the year 325 AD. They forget that the Christianity of today is a mixture of ancient European pagan rituals which have nothing to do with the message of Jesus.
Jesus is a wonderful human been chosen to deliver the message of God.
Mario
Mario
October 28, 2014 at 10:48 pm
I dont want to know what people think about Bible text i want to have a bible version clearly say I m JESUS A GOD and explains INCARNATION.
I Repeat my question
Andrew
You said Jesus claimed him to be God???
Is there any pages in Bible Jesus says I m GOD ???
Is there any Pages Jesus talk about incarnation ???
Is there any pages in Bible Jesus says 3 Gods ???
Find this 3 not only 1 find all 3 and post it please! I didnt ask about Jesus says in Bible father but says I m Jesus I m God there is no God but me does he say that ? No but he says
Also is there any pages or writings Jesus say God entered my Body as a Spiritual way or explains this ? Nope but JEsus says
————————————-
The difference Between Islam and Christians. We Muslims do have Quran = Word of God, Hadith Word of our Prophet. You christians have Bible Word of Gospels people who didnt meet Jesus or not even the Word of God. So Bible is not word of God but Word of People with there Gospels.
But even as i tell you this you wont understand becuse you cant even understand how mighty God is.
Yeah yeah yeah you will get anooyed now its a text of Barnabas Bible 😛 Read it you wont lose anything right?
Also this text was found in Solomons Bible AD150 aswell
When Jesus had said this, Philip answered: ‘We are content to serve God, but we desire, however, to know God, for Isaiah the prophet said: “Verily thou art a hidden God,” and God said to Moses his servant: “I am that which I am.”
Jesus answered: ‘Philip, God is a good without which there is naught good; God is a being without which there is naught that is; God is a life without which there is naught that liveth; so great that he filleth all and is everywhere. He alone hath no equal. He hath had no beginning, nor will he ever have an end, but to everything hath he given a beginning, and to everything shall he give an end. He hath no father nor mother; he hath no sons. nor brethren. nor companions. And because God hath no body, therefore he eateth not, sleepeth not, dieth not, walketh not, moveth not, but abideth eternally without human similitude, for that he is incorporeal, uncompounded, immaterial, of the most simple substance. He is so good that he loveth goodness only; he is so just that when he punisheth or pardoneth it cannot be gainsaid. In short, I say unto thee, Philip, that here on earth thou canst not see him nor know him perfectly; but in his kingdom thou shalt see him for ever: wherein consisteth all our happiness and glory.’
Philip answered: ‘Master, what sayest thou? It is surely written in Isaiah that God is our father; how, then, hath he no sons?’
Jesus answered: ‘There are written in the prophets many parables, wherefore thou oughtest not to attend to the letter, but to the sense. For all the prophets, that are one hundred and forty-four thousand, whom God hath sent into the world, have spoken darkly. But after me shall come the Splendour of all the prophets and holy ones, and shall shed light upon the darkness of all that the prophets have said, because he is the messenger of God’ And having said this, Jesus sighed and said: ‘Have mercy on Israel, O Lord God; and look with pity upon Abraham and upon his seed, in order that they may serve thee with truth of heart.
His disciples answered: ‘So be it, O Lord our God!’
Jesus said: ‘Verily I say unto you, the scribes and doctors have made void the law of God with their false prophecies, contrary to the prophecies of the true prophets of God: wherefore God is wrath with the house of Israel and with this faithless generation.’ His disciples wept at these words, and said: ‘Have mercy, O God, have mercy upon the temple and upon the holy city, and give it not into contempt of the nations that they despise not thy holy covenant.’ Jesus answered: ‘So be it, Lord God of our fathers.’
Did you understand, your answer will be No ( O.o ) wow i did a miracle i knowed the answer but please i m just a human dont get any ideas! (Was a joke 😉 )
Ahmedemin
June 15, 2008 at 12:03 am
Ahmedemin,
You ask for where in the Bible does Jesus claim his divinity?
Please click on the following link for a comprehensive article on biblical references where Jesus claims his Divine Sonship as the Messiah, the God of Abraham, and Jehovah, the giver of the Mosaic Law.
Andrew, you will find this interesting as well. It is completely biblical and you will no doubt agree with the theme of the article.
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=e11d84d4a0a0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
Don
Don
June 15, 2008 at 12:09 am
The likeness of ‘Isa in Allah’s sight is the same as Adam. He created him from earth and then He said to him, “Be!” and he was. (Surah Al ‘Imran: 59)
Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves know. (Acts 2:22 KJV).
Now you will say Ahmedemin is a Arab becuse his name is weird? Hmmm well i m Born in Sweden and i m frome Sweden No one teached me a religion. My friends ate pig drank alcohol Yet i decided at 16 years old chose Islam over Christianity. So you will ask me what made you do that ?
This
The likeness of ‘Isa in Allah’s sight is the same as Adam. He created him from earth and then He said to him, “Be!” and he was. (Surah Al ‘Imran: 59)
(Isa a.s means Jesus a.s Muslims call Jesus as Isa)
and i did compare Quran with this
Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves know. (Acts 2:22 KJV).
I cant see any difference God is telling US Jesus is a Human in both.
Ahmedemin
June 15, 2008 at 12:14 am
Ahmedemin,
You’re reading into Acts 2:22 what you expect it to say. You will get no denials from Christians that Jesus was a man, but that is what the incarnation is. Jesus was fully God and fully man.
To understand John 5:30 you must comprehend the Trinity. Unless you attempt to understand the Trinity I can’t help you. The concept of the Trinity is not polytheistic as Islam understands, but monotheistic and relational. It is a hierarchal relationship which is why Jesus says he does nothing without the Father’s approval. This was stated to show the submission of the Son to the Father’s will, even as they both desire the same thing. This is similar to the relationship of a head, torso, and legs. The legs and torso can’t go anywhere without direction from the head, yet all are part of the same whole.
Jesus never utters the words I am God (or at least the Bible doesn’t record if he did). He didn’t need to. His followers knew. But the words that set the Pharisees off the most before they eventually killed him was when Jesus said, “Before Abraham was I AM.” This implied not only his existence before his birth (which tells of his divine nature), but I AM was the name of God given to Moses at the burning bush. So basically he said to the Pharisees, before Abraham was around I was God.
Elsewhere Jesus tells people that to see the Son is to see the Father and that he and the Father are one. So no, we don’t have a clear “I am God” statement recorded. But such a statement would have been contrary to the nature of Christ who spoke mostly in parables and riddles.
Keep in mind that the Qu’ran postdates Christianity by 600 years and must demonstrate significant errors in the New Testament to validate its claims against Jesus’ divinity. The New Testament is written as a historical document within the life times of witnesses. To contradict a historical document, one not only has to prove it false, but to prove one’s own documents true. Islam has far from satisfied the terms to do so.
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 15, 2008 at 1:57 am
Don,
Mosey on over to my blog when you get a moment. I had some issues concerning Mormonism I wanted to discuss. I just finished a post on the topic.
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 15, 2008 at 3:17 am
So actually the Bible does not ay anywhere I am Jesus and God? You said no Andrew right?
That means Humeans changed the religion not only by book also with words!
In old teswtament God says i will send a Prophet a Messiah son of David ? Now you will say god Changed his words and sended himself, i cant belive how blind a person can be. GOD never CHANGES his words when GOD SAYS SOMETHING it HAPPENS. God does not LIE.
God did not make any Proimse in New or Old Testament it will be Protected but GOD made that PRomise in QURAN!
EVERY evidence does show JEsus is Prophet but you guys still want to belive in something Bible does not say Trinity = Ridicilous.
Old Roman Religion Jupiter and his SOn HErcules ?
Romans become Christians and belive God and His Son Jesus ? Whats the difference ?
A Man Called SAUL who Murdered LOTS of real belivers who blived in JESUS as a PROPHET, The Men called saul was Roman Empire Citizen yet a Jude frome Benjamin tribe. This guy helps Roman Empire so much and kills so much people then suddenly disappears 3 years into desert then comes back with changed of heart and says Jesus dis speak with me( 🙂 yeah right or was it SAtan who spoke with Saul?) Then Mr Saul changes his name to Paulus also changes Bible or writes a new one which he goes to Rome and lives there to in secret make People who belive in Jupiter and his Son HEercules convert them to Chrsitianity (the name Christians didnt xist bore Paulus)
Paulus follower of Satan changes the Bible and to be able to make more people Christians makes up the Father and Son history BECUSE ROMANS AT OLD TIMES BELIVED IN HUMAN GODS ! So why not make JEsus a Human God aswell?
WAKE UP PLEASE!
Ahmedemin
June 15, 2008 at 7:59 am
I did meet 6-8 Chrsitians,
1 of them in my work i asked him is God about trinity or whatever you call, he said no no no no you got everythign wrong or someone lied to you God is 3 Holy Ghost, God and his Son i was like WHAT?, but i heared God are not 3 but is 1 he said NOT AT ALL we are Ortodox the rest is lier i was like
O.o ???????????
The second Christian i meet i asked Is God 3 he said
no no no no God with incarnation is 1 i was like WHAT?
I explained what other Orotdox guy said he said they are in WRONG PATH and there BIBLE IS ERROR we are Protestants i was like ok O.o
I meet 3 Christian asked about 3 Gods or 1 God he said you got everything wrong JESUS is POPHET i was like (O.O OMG HE SAYS JESUS IS PROPHET ????) But God made a HUMAN JESUS his SON CHOSE HIM, but he is a HUMAN i was like WHAT you serious ??? He said Yes Ortodox and Protestant Bible are wrong Katolik Bible is Right there bible is ERROR i was omg you sure ? He said YES!
Then i meet another Katolik Christian he said the other Katolik i meet who said JEsus was prophet he is wrong so this 2 begined start a HEAVY argueing! I left them and did go my way.
I meet a 5 Chrsitian MORMONS which says we translated Bible and TRINITY IS A LIE GOD IS 3 I WAS LIKE O.o;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; He said God is not 1 But 3????? Then i said but the 10 Commandments say 1. You should have no other Gods beside me?
He could not answer this!
Then the last Christians i meet Jehovas witness they said Jesus is a Prophet not son or God. I WAS VER INTRESTED listenning to them becuse they said JESUS IS PROPHET i said how come? They translated Bible Hebrew texts and found 50 000 error in old Bible o.O????
So all Christians everyone have different thinking or beliving so THIS BIT CORRPUTED RELIGION is nothing but a Religion who is against the 1 Commandments
I m Gods Servant of my own authority i can do nothing. (John 5:30) So Jehovas witness belive this text and lots of them was edited when they translated the Hebrew Bible again they found several places Jesus say i m Gods Servant!
1.You should have no Other Gods BEside me!
Jesus is a Prophet !
Ahmedemin
June 15, 2008 at 8:18 am
The difference Between Islam and Christians. We Muslims do have Quran = Word of God, Hadith Word of our Prophet. You christians have 5 different or 6? Bible Word of Gospels people who didnt meet Jesus or not even the Word of God. So Bible is not word of God but Word of People with there Gospels!
But even as i tell you this you wont understand becuse you cant even understand how mighty God is.
God is a good without which there is naught good; God is a being without which there is naught that is; God is a life without which there is naught that liveth; so great that he filleth all and is everywhere. He alone hath no equal. He hath had no beginning, nor will he ever have an end, but to everything hath he given a beginning, and to everything shall he give an end. He hath no father nor mother; he hath no sons. nor brethren. nor companions. And because God hath no body, therefore he eateth not, sleepeth not, dieth not, walketh not, moveth not, but abideth eternally without human similitude, for that he is incorporeal, uncompounded, immaterial, of the most simple substance. He is so good that he loveth goodness only; he is so just that when he punisheth or pardoneth it cannot be gainsaid. In short, I say unto thee, Philip, that here on earth thou canst not see him nor know him perfectly; but in his kingdom thou shalt see him for ever: wherein consisteth all our happiness and glory.’
Also dont forget >>> Jesus said I can of my own authority do nothing. (John 5:30)
God Bless
Everyone who belives Jesus is a Holy Prophet !
Ahmedemin
June 15, 2008 at 8:41 am
Ahmedemin,
Christians have one Bible. There are points where some denominations include extra books. Eastern Orthodox Christians incorporate the Apocrypha, which are Jewish writings between the Old and New Testaments (300-100 BC). The Orthodox do not consider them Scripture, but the Catholic Church does. But they have only done so since the Protestant Reformation. As to Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons, they are not considered Christians by anyone in Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, or Protestantism. They have different scriptures and have changed the Scriptures to suit their own purposes.
The Gospels were written as historical documents by followers of Jesus within the lifetime of thousands of witnesses. The earliest manuscripts we have are from the beginning of the 2nd century and are the same as what we have today. In fact, a manuscript of John’s Gospel from less than 50 years after he wrote it was discovered recently. We can also reconstruct the entire New Testament using quotations from the writings of the early church fathers.
When someone says that the Bible has errors this is ignorant of the following facts:
-99% of the text is free from error
-Most of the changes are insignificant and do not effect meaning (for instance the English equivalent of writing “a” in place of “an” or names in place of their pronouns or vice versa)
-The few remaining changes have been fixed using early manuscripts and did not establish any new doctrines
-Most of the changes were made after doctrine was formed… for instance a verse that says “water, spirit, and blood” became “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” but was not cited at the Council of Nicaea when the Trinity was declared a doctrine of the church
To validate the claims of Islam, it is still necessary to disprove the claims of the New Testament AND prove the claims of Islam true. The evidence is nowhere near being able to do either one.
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 15, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Ahmedemin,
Show me… where did Paul disagree with the doctrines of the disciples? He was accepted by the disciples and taught the same doctrines. This is a rather old argument, and shows a basic misunderstanding of the Christian faith. Until you can show evidence this is the case (which you can’t because it doesn’t exist) you need to find another argument.
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 15, 2008 at 8:24 pm
So Bible is Free of ERROR ??? Really ??? Then go ahead read this in every place Jesus say i m Gods ervant or Prophet or i cant do anything if God does not allow Also Jesus says your Father is my Father !
International Standard Version (©2008 )
I can do nothing on my own accord. I judge according to what I hear,
and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will but the
will of the one who sent me.”
John 4:34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who
sent Me and to accomplish His work.
John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will,
but the will of Him who sent Me.
American King James Version
You men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved
of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by
him in the middle of you, as you yourselves also know:
Acts 10:38 “You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with
the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and
healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
(NASB ©1995)
Anointed means Chosen by God in other word a Prophet of God! Look at
this example in Quran
Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you
out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a
bird by Allah’s leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper,
and I raise the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I announce to you what
you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a
portent for you if you are to be believers.
And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and
to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto
you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey
me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a
straight path. (Qur’an 3: 49-51).
International Standard Version (©200
Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except for
one-God. <<<<<<<<<>
The Holy Spirit has been mentioned in the Quran several times and many
questions have been raised about the identity of the Holy Spirit in
the Quran. Many of the questions come from our Christian brothers and
sisters who wonder if the Holy Spirit in the Quran is the third of
their Trinity beliefs.
Quran is very clear in denouncing Trinity (5:73) and affirming the
Oneness of God Almighty. (112:1-4). The Holy Spirit in the Quran is
clearly defined as the angel Gabriel who has been the angel-messenger
between The Almighty God and the human beings, e.g. Mary, Jesus, and
prophet Muhammed.
In reference to Gabriel, the Arabic Quran calls him; “Ruhhil-
Qudus” (Holy Spirit),
“Ruuhanaa” (Our Spirit), “Ruuhul-’Amiin” (The Honest Spirit) and “Al-
Ruh’ ” (The Spirit) . Thus, when reading the verses in the Quran, the
whole Quran, we see that Gabriel is the Holy and Honest Bearer of
Revelations. We learn from 2:97 that these references are indeed
talking about Gabriel.
[2:97] Say, “Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has
brought
down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with GOD’s will,
confirming
previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the
believers.”
[16:102] Say, “The Holy Spirit(GABRIEL) has brought it (Quran) down
from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to
provide a beacon and good news for the submitters.”
[2:87] We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent
other messengers, and we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles
and supported him with the Holy Spirit(GABRIEL). Is it not a fact that
every time a messenger went to you with anything you disliked, your
ego caused you to be arrogant? Some of them you rejected, and some of
them you killed.
[2:253] These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others.
For
example, GOD spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks.
And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him
with the Holy Spirit (GABRIEL).
International Standard Version 2008
And this is eternal life: to know you, the only true God, and the one
whom you sent-Jesus the Messiah. (JESUS SAYS HERE THE ONY 1 TRUE GOD
AND I M
MESSIAH IN OTHER WORD PROPHET)!
Gods Words Translation 1995
The God of our ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob has glorified his
servant Jesus. You handed Jesus over to Pilate. You rejected him in
Pilate’s presence, even though Pilate had decided to let him go free.
International Standard Version 2008
For in this city both Herod and Pontius Pilate actually met together
with the gentiles and the people of Israel to oppose your holy servant
Jesus, whom you anointed
(SERVANT AGAIN)?
I can do nothing of my own authority” (5:30)
King James Bible
But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which
I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
King James Bible
Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved
of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by
him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
“I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear, and my judgment is
honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of him who
sent me.” [ John 5:30 ]
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————–
Jesus said: “My doctrine is not my own; it comes from him who sent
me.” [ John 7:16
“…The man who hears my word and has faith in him who sent me
possesses eternal life.”
[ John 5:24 ]
`…I have not come of myself. I was sent by One who has the right to
send, and him you do not know. I know him because it is from him I
come; he sent me.” [ John 7:28-29 ]
Jesus looked up to heaven and said, “…Eternal life is this: to know
you, the only true God, and him whom you have sent, Jesus
Christ.” [ John 17:1-3 ]
All who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
[ Romans 8:14 ]
As he was setting out on a journey a man came running up, knelt down
before him and asked, “Good Teacher, what must I do to share in
everlasting life?” Jesus answered, “Why do you call me good? No one
is good but God alone.” [ Mark 10:17-18 ]
“None of those who call me `Lord’ will enter the kingdom of God, but
only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”
[ Matthew 7:21 ]
“…Go to my brothers and tell them, `I am ascending to my Father and
your Father, to my God and your God.’ ” [ John 20:17 ]
“God is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him alone. This is
the right path.”
[ Quran 3:51, 19:36, & 43:64 ]
Trinity, the doctrine of God taught by Christians that asserts that
God is one in essence but three in “person,” Father, Son, and Holy
Spirit. Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such,
appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend
to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: “Hear O Israel: The
Lord our God is one” (Deut. 6:4).
[ Encyclopedia Britannica, 1975 ]
Jesus’ Death
This has been the single most controversial subject in the world. The
Quran’s miraculous mathematical code has now provided the final answer
to this topic:
Jesus’ soul was raised, i.e., he was put to death prior to the arrest
and crucifixion of his body. Thus, his persecutors arrested, tortured,
and crucified an empty body – Jesus was already gone to the world of
souls (3:55, 4:157).
They plotted and schemed, but so did God, and God is the best schemer.
Thus, God said,
“O Jesus, I am putting you to death, and raising you to Me; I will
save you from the disbelievers.”
[ Quran 3:54-55 ]
They claimed that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the
messenger of God! In fact, they never killed him; they never crucified
him; they were led to believe that they did.
[ Quran 4:157 ]
Ahmedemin
June 16, 2008 at 7:19 am
Ahmedemin,
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the Trinity that is causing you to read your own ideas into the verses you quote. The Trinity is a hierarchal relationship. The Father is greater than the Son. By admitting that, Jesus is not denying that He is God, but acknowledging that His will is in submission to the Father’s.
Take into account the following verses where Jesus claims to be God:
“Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.” 57The Jews therefore said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?” 58Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” 59Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.” John 8:56-59
And the Pharisees response in John 10:33…
“For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God”
“Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God,” John 5:18
“Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” John 20:28-29
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 16, 2008 at 4:34 pm
“None of those who call me `Lord’ will enter the kingdom of God, but
only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”
[ Matthew 7:21 ]
Explanatin who ever calls Jesus God wont enter Paradise so all Christians will go hell who says Jesus is God !
International Standard Version 2008
For in this city both Herod and Pontius Pilate actually met together
with the gentiles and the people of Israel to oppose your holy servant
Jesus, whom you anointed
Holy Servant and anointed in other owrd Prophet, you say i dont understand ? Are blind ? Or hiding the truth ? Or do you have hard time understanding ?
International Standard Version (©2008 )
Jesus told her, “Don’t hold on to me, because I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my
brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'”
Ascending to my Father and your Father in other word The Father is also your Father and mine so all Humans Father not only Jesus, and after Jesus say My GOD and YOUR GOD which also makes sense becuse in several places in Bible Jesus says I m Servant of God!
Quran is = Word of GOD
Hadith = Word of our Prophet ! Perfectk books !
Bible is word of Luke whonever saw Jesus
Also word of Saul(Paulus) which murdered lots Humans also ARGUED WITH BARNABAS >
Acts 15:36-41 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
36And some days after Paul said unto Barnabas, Let us go again and visit
our brethren in every city where we have preached the word of the LORD,
and see how they do.
37And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was
Mark.
38But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from
them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work.
39And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed
asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto
Cyprus;
40And Paul chose Silas, and departed, being recommended by the
brethren unto the grace of God.
41And he went through Syria and Cilicia, confirming the churches.
So this clearly tells us BARNABAS DIDNT AGREE WITH PAULUS(SAUL THE MURDERER IN PAST DAYS), does Bible say why they didnt agree?
Well they found Barnabas Bible AD 400-450 maybe that expaans why? Becuse Paulus Bible says God is JEsus while Barnabas in his bible says PAULUS WAS FOLLOWER OF SATAN ? Which in Bible confirms that this 2 had a argue and Barnabas Bible was REJECTED BIBLE. Becuse Barnabas called Jesus Gods Servant. Can this be true? Well yyur own Bible says it so why not?
New American Standard Bible 1995
“BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED;
I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.
Well no wonder you dont belive becuse you are following the same thing Paulus did maybe ? (Satan?)
Ahmedemin
June 16, 2008 at 7:13 pm
Ahmedemin,
Matthew 7:21 says “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” It does not say “none”.
Anointed does not imply that Jesus is not the Son of God or God in the flesh. Anoint means to be in the presence of God.
Barnabas and Paul had a disagreement over a person, not doctrine. Mark had deserted them previously and Paul didn’t trust him. The Barnabus bible was referred to but has not been found. The Gospel of Barnabus has been found, but it was a Gnostic Gospel written long after the death of Barnabus. It bears the name of the Apostle in a failed attempt to legitimize its claims.
Again, you have failed to demonstrate where Paul differs from any of the Disciples or Apostles in doctrine (which he doesn’t). The fact is that Peter said this about Paul’s writings in 2 Peter 3:15-16:
“Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
So Peter, the Disciple upon whom Christ said he would found his church called Paul’s letters Scripture! Again, you’re not going to find places where Paul disagrees with the doctrine of the Disciples, Apostles, or Jesus. Until you can substantiate your claims, you should not take them as fact.
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 16, 2008 at 8:16 pm
Exactly what i wanted you to say!
None and Not all, This word was changed in 2008 New version. I have a 1600 AD BIBLE in my Hand which says
“None of those who call me `Lord’ will enter the kingdom of God, but
only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.”
[ Matthew 7:21 ]
This text was edited!
Another exampe is here>>>
<>
International Standard Version (©2008)
Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except for one-God.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone.
King James Bible
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is,
God.
American King James Version
And Jesus said to him, Why call you me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
American Standard Version
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good save one, even God.
Bible in Basic English
And Jesus said to him, Why do you say I am good? no one is good but one, and that is
God.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? None is good but one, that is God.
Darby Bible Translation
But Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? no one is good but one, that is God.
English Revised Version
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good save one, even God.
Webster’s Bible Translation
And Jesus said to him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good, but one, that is
God.
Weymouth New Testament
“Why do you call me good?” asked Jesus in reply; “there is no one truly good except
One–that is, God.
World English Bible
Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except one–God.
Young’s Literal Translation
And Jesus said to him, ‘Why me dost thou call good? no one is good except One — God;
How many of this Bible says ONE- GOD ? it does not say The one, it says except One — God.
Sure some bibles are not same or is any Bible the same at all? They all are changed and everytime i read a new Bible I belive in Quran more, that God says they changed Bible with there own hands! AND YET Christians does not deny this, most of them say you must change and some Priest have the right to Reform Bible to the year or in other word modernise Bible.
DID YOU KNOW in SWEDEN, they are ALLOWING GAY PEOPLE MERRY IN CHURCH. Think about that.!
International Standard Version 2008
Here is my Servant whom I have chosen, whom I love, and with whom I am pleased! I will put my Spirit on him, and he will proclaim justice to the gentiles.
……………………………………………………………………..
New American Standard Bible 1995
“BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.
……………………………………………………………………..
God’s Word Translation 1995
“Here is my servant whom I have chosen, whom I love, and in whom I delight. I will put my Spirit on him, and he will announce justice to the nations.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
King James Bible
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
American King James Version
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit on him, and he shall show judgment to the Gentiles.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
American Standard Version
Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; My beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit upon him, And he shall declare judgment to the Gentiles.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
Basic English Bile
See my servant, the man of my selection, my loved one in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit on him, and he will make my decision clear to the Gentiles.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
Douay-Rheims Bible
Behold my servant whom I have chosen, my beloved in whom my soul hath been well pleased. I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
Darby Bible
Behold my servant, whom I have chosen, my beloved, in whom my soul has found its delight. I will put my Spirit upon him, and he shall shew forth judgment to the nations.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
English Revised Version
Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; My beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit upon him, And he shall declare judgment to the Gentiles.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
Webstar Bible Translation
Behold, my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall show judgment to the Gentiles.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
Weymouth New Testament
“This is My servant whom I have chosen, My dearly loved One in whom My soul takes pleasure. I will put My spirit upon Him, and He will announce justice to the nations.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
World English Bile
“Behold, my servant whom I have chosen; my beloved in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit on him. He will proclaim justice to the nations.
……………………………………………………………………..
……………………………………………………………………..
Young Literal Translation
‘Lo, My servant, whom I did choose, My beloved, in whom My soul did delight, I will put My Spirit upon him, and judgment to the nations he shall declare,
……………………………………………………………………..
Matthew 12:18
Can you Explain me What Servant means ?
14 Different Bible here and all 14 says Jesus is a Servant. Maybe Muslims did Edit all this 14 Bible like they did edit Barnabas Bible ?
Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird by Allah’s leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah’s leave. And I announce to you what you eat and what you store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you if you are to be believers.
And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so keep your duty to Allah and obey me. Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path. (Qur’an 3: 49-51).
We can cmepare this Quran with
“…Go to my brothers and tell them, `I am ascending to my Father and
your Father, to my God and your God.’ ” [ John 20:17 ]
In Quran God informs us that JEsu said to my God and your God and that is correct John 20:17 there Jesus says My Father is your Father , my God and your God(which means its not only my God but it also your God which all 14 Bible i posted who said Servant also support this)!
Please stop saying something Bible does not say, nowhere does Jesus OPENLY SAYS I M GOD, but he says My God is Your GOD and other places in BIBLE GOD SAYS JESUS IS MY SERVANT. How Blind can Human be arent you going to use your brain yet?
You say I have a fundamental misunderstanding of the nature of the Trinity, For GOD sake where in Bible does explain TRINITY? I m not asking about signs becuse there is 14 or more signs which says Jesus is Servant.
I want you TO SHOW ME THE TEXT, JESUS SAY EXPLAINS AND SAYS THE NAME TRINITY IN BIBLE ! = The Answer will be he does not but there is Text that might have meant that. So call me that i dont understand yet you fundamentaly accepts which Bible Deny!
Ahmedemin
June 16, 2008 at 10:39 pm
International Standard Version (©200 8
Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good except for one-God.
This New Bible says one-God O.o;;;;;;;;;;;;;
Jesus says dont call me good, Nobody is good except for ONE-GOD ! <<<<< ONE GOD ???
As every Jewish child learns, “Shema Yisroel, HaShem Elokeynu, HaShem Echad” (“Hear or Israel, the Lord is G-d, the Lord is One”). Deut. 6:4. This is a very simple and fundamental concept. G-d is One.
There is no other god beside
GOD,”(47:19)
He is the one God; there is no
other god beside Him. ……(28:70)
2 Thou shall make no image of God. 2
There is nothing that equals (like)
Him. (42:11)
No visions can encompass Him,
but He
encompasses all visions. He is the
Compassionate, the
Cognizant.[6:103]
“My Lord, make this a peaceful
land, and protect me and my
children from worshiping idols.
(14:35)
Also this Bible is frome 1600 AD
says like this
“I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear, and my judgment is honest
because I am not seeking my own will but the will of him who sent me.” [ John 5:30 ]
Ahmedemin
June 16, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Ahmedemin,
The Bible was not written in English. What you have are translations that differ (and not all translators used as many manuscripts). Beyond that, you have no point. The Qu’ran has translations that are different as well.
Do you know what textual criticism is and how it works?
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 16, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Ahmedemin,
I believe the ISV’s translation is closer to the Greek source, but it should go with a small letter “g” (“one god” not “one God”).
I have always stopped at this statement (which is found in Mark 10:18 and Luke 18:19) because it never made sense to me, and here are my problems with it.
a) Contradiction with common expression:
If we take Jesus literally, we would conclude that no one can ever be called “good”… only God is good.. and because only God is good, human beings cannot be called good regardless of how much goodness they have in them, they simply cannot be called good. So, even if you, Ahmedemin, show me all the goodness you have, I cannot call you a good man.
b) Contradiction with Jesus’ nature
Why would Jesus deny that he was good? Was he or wasn’t he good?!!! Let’s accept that only God is good, if Jesus is God, then he should be called good too, and if Jesus shouldn’t be called good, then he is not God.
c) Likelihood of manipulation
The sentence always sounded to me like it is an intentional rephrasing of an original sentence. What seems to me to have been the original words from Jesus is: “Why do you call me god? Nobody is god except for one god”. I can’t resist this notion because the two words “good” and “god” are only one “o” different, which raises the possibility for some sort of manipulation. Now, of course Jesus did not speak English, but did he say that sentence in Greek? Who knows, we can’t confirm, but we can’t also deny. Maybe those who were calling him god were Greeks or Hellenized Jews and he spoke in Greek with them, do we know? I don’t, know and would appreciate it if anyone could inform me on this.
What’s more interesting is that when I checked the Greek text in Mark and in Luke I found that it goes like this (after replacing the two words): ‘Why do you call me ‘agathos’? Nobody is ‘agathos’ except for one ‘theos'”. Here too, notice the close similarity between the words “agathos” (good) and “theos” (god).
And by the way, the Greek language does not have a word for “God” (capital letter “G”, i.e. the one and only god—the Greeks simply did not believe in God), it only has the word “theos” for “god” (just one god among many)! So, the translation “God alone” cannot be right! and the correct translation should be “only one god”.
-Abdo
عبده
June 17, 2008 at 7:05 am
You didnt answer my question why should i answer yours? Oh yeah you have no answer to my questions!
New American Standard Bible 1995
“BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.
Bible says JEsus is Gods Servant, you Christians DONT even belive in your own Bible. You dont even belive in the words of Bibel so corrupted is your Bible.
You know when they tranlsated the Hebrew Bible, the Hewbrew language was not Perfectly Translaed becuse lots of the words were lost and Christians did EDIT all places in Bible that God sais JEsus my Servant with Son. So if you put Servant in everywhere it says Son the Bible will be a little more correct but not Perfeckt.
I repeat this is evidence in your own BIBLE
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
New American Standard Bible 1995
“BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.
I Repear againb it Says GODS SERVANT !
New American Standard Bible 1995
“BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.
Did you understand the Bible are you going to deny your own BOOK? You can read it again here
New American Standard Bible 1995
“BEHOLD, MY SERVANT WHOM I HAVE CHOSEN; MY BELOVED IN WHOM MY SOUL is WELL-PLEASED; I WILL PUT MY SPIRIT UPON HIM, AND HE SHALL PROCLAIM JUSTICE TO THE GENTILES.
Ahmedemin
June 17, 2008 at 7:54 am
Ahmedemin,
You didn’t ask a question. You continually cut and paste the same verses from different translations and assume it means what you think it means. The problem is you have no understanding of the context! You interpret the Bible based on the Qu’ran. The Qu’ran was not in existence when the Bible was written, so this is obviously a wrong method of interpretation.
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 17, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Abdo,
Though the Bible was written in Greek to reach the masses who spoke Greek at that time, Jesus was more likely speaking Aramaic. He was speaking to a young Jewish man and Aramaic would have been the native language for both men. I don’t believe the Aramaic words for God and good are anywhere close in sound.
What you must first understand is that Judaism and Christianity teach that man is not good by nature, but that the hearts of men are wicked. Jesus was asking a sort of rhetorical question when he asked “Why do you call me good?” What Jesus is in essence asking is ‘do you believe I am God (and therefore good)?’ There is nothing in the context that implies the answer must be negative. Again, you are reading the passage and allowing Islam to be your interpreter.
Andrew
http://seekingtheface.wordpress.com
Andrew
June 17, 2008 at 3:55 pm
John 14:6
Jesus said, “I am the “WAY” and the “TRUTH” and the “LIFE”. No one COMES to the FATHER except through ME (JESUS).
———————————————-
The above Bible verse is a VERY CLEAR STATEMENT OF THE LORD JESUS who is powerfully claiming that he is the “ONLY” way to the Father (Holy God) …and I don’t understand why we need to go through a lot of discussions just to show or prove any other way to the Holy Father (Eternal Life).
…so simple, anyone who do not recognized Jesus Christ as Savior and Sovereign Lord, is definitely lost and being clearly deceived by the master of deception “satan”.
Any worships and or prayers that are not offered to the Lord Jesus Christ is clearly useless and just waste of time. Doing good deeds can’t cover up your sins, because even the most rich but vilest human creature can also share his fortune to the poor and be a good friend to anybody but still live a life that is always fall short of the glory of God…no good deeds that can ever ever void the sinfulness of our nature… we are terribly so sinful that even our most beautiful works is become a dirtiest a rags in the eyes of the Holy God…
…God is forgiving and that is very TRUE…but He is Just too… and His being just is applied to you when you die… either you go to hell or in heaven.
Once again “JESUS IS THE ONLY WAY TO THE FATHER”
…….and any other way is going to hell
—————–END OF THE STORY———————
Joel Michael
September 15, 2010 at 7:04 pm
To Joel and others
Jesus came primarily to the Jewish Nation. If the Israelites had kept God’s Laws given through Moses and had listened to the prophets would Jesus have been crucified? It was Jewish Scribes and religious teachers who should have recognised from the book of Isaiah and the other prophetical writings that Jesus was the Son of God.
Jesus was sent to the Jews. The greater minority listened and became disciples. Christ came to establish the Kingdom in His Father’s Name. First to the Jews then to the nations. We having this witness puts accountability on all who have this message delivered to them. Within Christianity there is so much divergence, so many different sects all pointing the finger at one another accusing each other of being disapproved by God. Jesus came to make God’s name and purposes known. God’s purpose is that mankind obeys his commands and God sent His Son whom he so loves to show us the way. As I understand it the way is through unity and not through discord. Is it not for God to say what he approves of and what he does not approve of? How do you know that God does not approve of the Muslim religion? How do you know that God did not give his name as Allah (praise to Our God)to the Prophet Muhammad? How do you know that God and Jesus Christ do not approve of the worship of faithful Muslims who keep the law? Something the greater majority of the Jewish religion failed to do.
You people keep accusing the Muslim believers of denying the son of God. The Muslim religion does not deny the son of God but the majority of the Jewish Nation did and the chief priests and scribes were the ones who delivered God’s son to be put to death without honour or compassion. As I understand it the majority of Jews still do not accept Christ. I am sorry if I am wrong or offend believing Jewish Nationals but this is what I have heard. The Muslim religion does not accept Jesus as divine. The Muslim religion do show respect for Jesus as a prophet which he is but Worship God to a higher degree. I believe Jesus would be as Moses Numbers 11:28,29 Joshua urged Moses to restrain two who had received the power from God to prophecy and Moses replied “Are you feeling jealous for me? No I wish that all of YHWH’s people were prophets, because the spirit of God would be upon them”.
Can it be denied that there is a great deal of error and contradiction in Christian beliefs? Jesus was the only begotten son of God according to the writings we have been blessed with but there are many different interpretations of what the true meaning of this relationship actually is within the whole Christian Diversity of Churches.
If the Muslim religion has been given law as the Jewish Nation did and are keeping and living up to the law in general who are we to judge whether God approves or disapproves. Would we so called Christians not fare better if we could sort out our own problematic religious concepts before dictating to the Muslim Society?
If the Jewish Nation on the whole had lived up to the Law of Moses they would have been a light to the Nations but they failed and were taken into captivity because they no longer had God’s protection and approval. If the Muslim religion teaches humility, love and continuity and live up to the standard taught I believe Jesus Christ and God will approve. However it is not for me, you or anyone else to dictate one way or another or speak for God or Jesus according to our personal beliefs. The Muslim know Jesus as a prophet and honour him as such. Some Christians believe Jesus to be God others believe Jesus to be God’s only begotten Son and there are many other conotations of belief. In the Great Day of God Almighty all truth will be revealed to all men. And Jesus Christ will be given great Honour by all mankind on that day. The writings of Muhammad that I have seen guide people to do good. Luke 6:45,46 “A good man brings forth good out of the good treasure of his heart, but a wicked man brings forth what is wicked out of his wicked treasure for out of the heart’s abundance his mouth speaks. “Why then do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?”
I will close with a question. How can we Christians sort our own problems out before dictating to others? Will we not all have to do our best to do good and wait on Our Lord to reveal the Truth. Because the scriptures say “Let God be found true, though every man be found a liar,etc..Romans 3:4
J Manders
December 31, 2010 at 3:55 am
Dear Rasheed
Please could I ask what your conclusion has been regarding the video “JESUS VS PAUL”?
From 1st Century Christianity followers of Christ were tortured and put to death until Constantine 1 came to power 312 A,D. Gradually Emperor Constantine adopted Christianity but did not enforce it as a state religion. Your belief corresponds with the Arian belief. That belief holds true with all bible writers including Paul.
Why anyone purporting to be Christian would willfully distort the truth and conjure animosity between the disciples of Jesus is beyond my understanding. Please allow me to reveal scripture and disperse such incorrect rivalry.
James a slave of God and the Lord Jesus Christ to the 12 tribes that are scattered about (James 1:1)James 2:23-26 Abraham put faith in God and it was counted as righteousness, You behold that his faith worked along with his works and by his works his faith was perfected”.
Paul wrote to the Galatians 3:26-29 “You are all in fact sons of God through faith in Jesus Christ. For all of you who were baptised into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman there is neither male nor female for YOU are all one person in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover if you belong to Christ YOU are really Abrahams seed heirs with reference to a promise”.
Paul wrote in Romans 2:12,13-28 “For instance all those who sinned without law will also perish without law but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God but the doers of the law will be declared righteous.etc..James corresponds with Paul in James chapter 2.
The Catholic Church teach Jesus as divine and equal to God but also say the belief encompasses “The Apostles Creed which in itself contradicts their Trinity teaching. The CREED… I believe in God the Father Almighty, The Creator of Heaven and earth, and in Jesus Christ His only son Our Lord. Who was born of the virgin Mary etc.. He Ascended into heaven, sitteth at the right hand of God The Father Almighty. From thence he shall come to judge the living and the dead. etc… I believe in the Resurrection of the body and life everlasting Amen.
There is no basis from scripture nor true theology to believe or purport to the belief that Jesus is divine and equal to God nor that Jesus alluded to such ideologies when he said “The Father is Greater than I”
J Manders
October 12, 2010 at 11:59 pm
Dear J Manders,
You are most welcome to communicate your ideas, thoughts or any questions you may have privately, by email (I have sent you a private email to this effect). You can also use the comments section of this blog (please indicate in your comment that you do not wish to publish the message).
I have been reading your contributions with great interest, and I am also grateful for you for taking an interest in my blog.
Raheed
Rasheed Gadir
October 17, 2010 at 11:43 am
Dear Joel Michael
John 14:6
Jesus said, “I am the “WAY” and the “TRUTH” and the “LIFE”. No one COMES to the FATHER except through ME (JESUS)
cannot support your conclusions for very simple reasons:
During the time of Moses, Moses was the way and the truth; and no one came to the Father except through him.
Likewise, during the time of David, David was the way and the truth; and no one could come to the Father except through him.
Also, during the time of Muhammad (present days), Muhammad is the way and the truth; and no one can come to the Father except through him.
Regards, Yeb
Yeb
December 28, 2010 at 8:13 am
Abraham, Moses and David were proved righeous and friends of God by their obedience to him. Moses was the mediator between God and the Israelite Nation and was chosen to deliver the law of God to the Israelites. If the Israelites had lived by that law and put their trust in God they would not have been taken captive by the nations. It is my understanding that if the Israelites had proved faithful as did Abraham, Moses, and David and had obeyed the prophets of God instead of puting them to death it might not have been necessary for Jesus to die a sacrificial death because keeping the law would have united the Israelites with God and they would have recognised the Son of God to be their prophesied deliverer. But God and Jesus knew and prophesied beforehand as written in the book of Isaiah that the Jewish religious leaders would deliver Jesus to death.
I was spoken to by an messenger from the heavens and this person told me Jesus died to redeem me from my sins and that God is greater than Jesus. I am not intending to force that belief on the Muslim believers because as far as I understand, if the Muslim nation can keep the law of God they are proving they can do what the Israelite nation failed to do and when God’s Will becomes apparent to all mankind all who love God and his law will be blessed by knowing the whole truth. 1st Corinthians 13:9;10 12-13 “For we have partial knowledge and we prophecy partially, but when that which is complete arrives that which is partial will be done away with..for at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror but then it will be face to face. At present I know partially but then I shall know accurately”. If the apostles who knew Jesus knew partially how can we today claim we know accurately unless God reveals it to us?
I believe as I was told that Jesus died for my and the sins of all humans and set the example to lead us to God. However I consider that God could have given law to Muhammad and the Muslim nation. All people must live according to the law of love, mercy, justice and peace. People who do that will be approved by God. Jesus came to make God’s name and purposes known to the Israelites and was put to death for claiming to be the son of God, healing on the Sabath and doing good works.
If the Prophet Muhammad was chosen to deliver God’s laws to the Muslim nation and that nation live up to the law by loving even their enemies as the bible commands followers of Christ it is for God to Judge. As I see it, no man is capable of judging because all men are imperfect. All truth and justice belongs to God and Christ and all other prophets are and have been used by God to carry out his will according to divine inspiration.
J Manders
January 19, 2011 at 2:56 am